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liakoC8809 · 2010-01-21T22:34:24+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από !!!...vivaki...!!!:
Τι θα λέγατε να κάναμε θέμα όπου θα μιλάμε μόνο αγγλικά;
Δεν ξέρω αν υπάρχει ίδιο θέμα.....
Αρχίζω!

Hello!
How are you?
I bored........
Where are you from?

i'm from greece and live athens

Ο αναγνώστης · 2010-01-21T23:38:47+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από Lita Athens:
@ Ο αναγνώστης: I didn't know that the neo-latin languages that exist nowadays were formed on the basis of a mixture of latin and other languages the locals used before...! That's why I thought they were in a way the development of latin into a variety of different but at the same time quite similar languages that could be characterised as "Modern latin languages". That certainly explains why there are many neo-latin languages and not just one.

Personally, I don't know any other romance language besides French. When I started learning latin though I noticed a great number of similarities between latin and french. The present tense of the latin verb "sum", for example, is quite similar with its french equivalent! Moreover, the majority of the french words are latin "descendants". So, probably, the influence of the local languages that were mixed with latin, creating the neo-latin languages, is limited to some influences in the form (morphology) of words (suffixes, prefixes) and not in their route... I'm not a linguist however, therefore I'm not certain that this conclusion is completely accurate... I thought I'd give it a try, though, and I formed it on the basis of my limited knowledge on Comparative linguistics...

The wikipedia article on romance languages is surprisingly good. It certainly provides more information than I can

I wish I knew more on the subject because it's really interesting. But the truth remains that modern Greek is a "pure" descendant of ancient Greek (as pure as a language can be obviously) :jumpy:

I love that!! :jumpy:

Have you taken the 5th semester's linguistics module? Phonology and Morphology of ancient Greek? That's a very interesting module! I enjoyed it alot !!

thanous18 · 2010-01-22T11:28:53+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από Lita Athens:
Personally, I don't know any other romance language besides French. When I started learning latin though I noticed a great number of similarities between latin and french. The present tense of the latin verb "sum", for example, is quite similar with its french equivalent! Moreover, the majority of the french words are latin "descendants". So, probably, the influence of the local languages that were mixed with latin, creating the neo-latin languages, is limited to some influences in the form (morphology) of words (suffixes, prefixes) and not in their route... I'm not a linguist however, therefore I'm not certain that this conclusion is completely accurate... I thought I'd give it a try, though, and I formed it on the basis of my limited knowledge on Comparative linguistics...

That 's right! "Tu es" in latin is exactly the same with "tu es" in french, but it is pronounced differently.

As I know, western European languages derived from latin, especially Italian, French, Spanish, Portoguese and Romanian. This is what I was taught. Even English has many many words that derive from latin and ancient Greek of course. But these languages were not entirely evolved from Latin. They are a mix of latin, dialects of each country and "barbarian" languages as αναγνωστης has mentioned. Therefore, we cannot consider them as a natural evolution of latin, in the way modern Greek is a natural evolution of ancient Greek. I think you can find some books that can explain in depth all these.

-----------------------------------------
In Vatican, Latin is still the official language of the government and all documents are written in Latin. Personally, I don't know whether this language can be considered as modern latin. And of course latin is still the language of the Catholic Church.

blablabla14 · 2010-01-22T14:45:19+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από Submarine:
WOW:O!!!

You are from earth..I thought that only me was in earth

Sorry but i am only C Senior...My English aren't very well

if you want to speak about a language you have to use singular number not plural..for example "english IS (not are) a lovely language

:no1:

g@ngster95 · 2010-01-22T18:20:42+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από blablabla14:
if you want to speak about a language you have to use singular number not plural..for example "english IS (not are) a lovely language :no1:

right!:no1:

Orestes · 2010-01-22T21:23:05+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από blablabla14:
if you want to speak about a language you have to use singular number not plural..for example "english IS (not are) a lovely language :no1:

The exact opposite stands for the noun "the police".. People commonly use the phrase "the police is looking for the suspect" although the right syntax would be "the police are looking for the suspect".

Pavlitos · 2010-01-22T21:58:43+0200

Oh what an interesting place to spam...

Just kidding.

SICX · 2010-01-23T00:04:14+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από thanous18:
That 's right! "Tu es" in latin is exactly the same with "tu es" in french, but it is pronounced differently. As I know, western European languages derived from latin, especially Italian, French, Spanish, Portoguese and Romanian. This is what I was taught. Even English has many many words that derive from latin and ancient Greek of course. But these languages were not entirely evolved from Latin. They are a mix of latin, dialects of each country and "barbarian" languages as αναγνωστης has mentioned. Therefore, we cannot consider them as a natural evolution of latin, in the way modern Greek is a natural evolution of ancient Greek. I think you can find some books that can explain in depth all these.
-----------------------------------------
In Vatican, Latin is still the official language of the government and all documents are written in Latin. Personally, I don't know whether this language can be considered as modern latin. And of course latin is still the language of the Catholic Church.

yeah, that's righ'...

Crookshanks · 2010-01-23T20:01:23+0200

In Vatican, Latin is still the official language of the government and all documents are written in Latin. Personally, I don't know whether this language can be considered as modern latin. And of course latin is still the language of the Catholic Church.

Well, if it is a living language, with speakers that have it as their mother tongue, then I guess you can

. Btw, what does "Thanous" mean?

Lita Athens · 2010-01-23T20:37:44+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από thanous18:
That 's right! "Tu es" in latin is exactly the same with "tu es" in french, but it is pronounced differently. As I know, western European languages derived from latin, especially Italian, French, Spanish, Portoguese and Romanian. This is what I was taught. Even English has many many words that derive from latin and ancient Greek of course. But these languages were not entirely evolved from Latin. They are a mix of latin, dialects of each country and "barbarian" languages as αναγνωστης has mentioned. Therefore, we cannot consider them as a natural evolution of latin, in the way modern Greek is a natural evolution of ancient Greek. I think you can find some books that can explain in depth all these.
-----------------------------------------
In Vatican, Latin is still the official language of the government and all documents are written in Latin. Personally, I don't know whether this language can be considered as modern latin. And of course latin is still the language of the Catholic Church.

In order for us to clarify if this kind of Latin (the one used in the Vatican) is Modern or not, we should examine if it has somehow developed in comparison with (ancient) Latin. In other words we should see if it's an evolution of the old latin language, a "descendant", or if it's the old latin language per se, without any alterations (simplifications or influences by other romance languages, such as Italian).

thanous18 · 2010-01-23T20:48:40+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από Crookshanks:
Well, if it is a living language, with speakers that have it as their mother tongue, then I guess you can. Btw, what does "Thanous" mean?

Personally I do not think that the residents of Vatican speak Latin. Vatican is just a small part of Rome, so I can' t believe that all Rome speaks Italian, while in Vatican they speak Latin. I do not cosider it as a living language.
No I can't

Lita Athens · 2010-01-23T21:02:45+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από thanous18:
Personally I do not think that the residents of Vatican speak Latin. Vatican is just a small part of Rome, so I can' t believe that all Rome speaks Italian, while in Vatican they speak Latin. I do not cosider it as a living language.
No I can't

Actually, if they speak and/ or write in Latin, we should consider it as a living language!!!

I hope I didn't disappoint you...!!!

The truth is that, even if they do not speak in latin (which sounds a bit unreasonable to me as well) and they use it only in formal documents, it is regarded as a living language... That is because they still produce NEW latin texts!

Crookshanks · 2010-01-23T21:10:04+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από thanous18:
Personally I do not think that the residents of Vatican speak Latin. Vatican is just a small part of Rome, so I can' t believe that all Rome speaks Italian, while in Vatican they speak Latin. I do not cosider it as a living language.
No I can't

Well, I just set a prerequisite (imho) for a language to be called "living". I don' t think Latin is a living language, either.

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από Lita Athens:
Actually, if they speak and/ or write in Latin, we should consider it as a living language!!!

I hope I didn't disappoint you...!!!

The truth is that, even if they do not speak in latin (which sounds a bit unreasonable to me as well) and they use it only in formal documents, it is regarded as a living language... That is because they still produce NEW latin texts!

Yes, but a living language evolves, if Latin is just a language used by the Pope and the cardinals (Latin government, I should say?), then it does not evolve.

Lita Athens · 2010-01-23T21:17:07+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από Crookshanks:
Well, I just set a prerequisite (imho) for a language to be called "living". I don' t think Latin is a living language, either.

Yes, but a living language evolves, if Latin is just a language used by the Pope and the cardinals (Latin government, I should say?), then it does not evolve.

You are partially right. If they use the old latin religious texts (wthout producing not even one new text / document) then it is not a living language... It's like reading ancient greek works...

However, if they produce new latin texts, this means they're still using that language in the 21st century!!!

I don't know which one's the case though...
Do they produce new texts on a regular basis, or do they just use the old latin ones for preachings and religious ceremonies?

Crookshanks · 2010-01-23T21:23:47+0200

Oh, I dunno.

Maybe they use, let' s say, some kinda protocol, e.g. for when a Pope is elected. Maybe the language they use on this document is a standardised Latin text, with just the name of the Pope and the date changing. I might ask somebuddy who' s been there.

thanous18 · 2010-01-23T21:24:13+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από Lita Athens:
Actually, if they speak and/ or write in Latin, we should consider it as a living language!!!

I hope I didn't disappoint you...!!!

The truth is that, even if they do not speak in latin (which sounds a bit unreasonable to me as well) and they use it only in formal documents, it is regarded as a living language... That is because they still produce NEW latin texts!

I think you are very keen on speaking latin, aren't you?

Next time you see me, ask me "Quid agis?"

My answer "Multum bene! Et tu? "

To my mind, a language can be considered as a living language, only when it is used by people. It is like καθαρευουσα (archaic) in Greek. The government insisted on using it. Even in school students had to learn it. I don't know, but I think of this as a perversion, because they didn't use the "kind" of language they used to speak. It is like they tried to stop the natural evolution of language using the archaic.

Lita Athens · 2010-01-24T11:44:17+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από thanous18:
I think you are very keen on speaking latin, aren't you?
Next time you see me, ask me "Quid agis?"
My answer "Multum bene! Et tu? "

To my mind, a language can be considered as a living language, only when it is used by people. It is like καθαρευουσα (archaic) in Greek. The government insisted on using it. Even in school students had to learn it. I don't know, but I think of this as a perversion, because they didn't use the "kind" of language they used to speak. It is like they tried to stop the natural evolution of language using the archaic.

It is very difficult, in my opinion, to characterise this kind of latin as a living language or not...

What I wanted to underline by refering to the fact that they probably produce new latin texts in the 21st century is that we can't be completely certain when we jump into conclusions about the extent of use of a language!

The case with this kind of latin is very unique, since they do not speak latin but they just write in latin (probably). The comparison with καθαρεύουσα is not so accurate, since καθαρεύουσα was used not only in formal texts written for specific purposes in a specific area in Greece, but it was widely used in eduacation (that's wrong, in my opinion, but it was a fact - we can't deny it!).

Ο αναγνώστης · 2010-01-25T09:42:12+0200

Wikipedia says that there is an ATM at the Vatican which has instructions in Latin

Crookshanks · 2010-01-27T21:39:29+0200

Also, there is a Latin version of Wikipedia, so...

Lita Athens · 2010-01-30T15:29:42+0200

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από Crookshanks:
Also, there is a Latin version of Wikipedia, so...

Really?

I've heard that "Harry Potter" has been translated into latin... I wonder who's going to read it...
I believe that this kind of things (translations into ancient languages) happen only to attract people's attention...
They're kind of meaningless... None's going to buy a modern book in latin or read an on-line encyclopedia in ancient greek for example...
I really like latin but I'd never prefer to read a book in latin than in english... unless of course it's written by a latin author, yet again I'll need a dictionary...!!!

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